Are the Gospels Reliable Witnesses?

Are the Gospels Reliable Witnesses?

Are the Gospels Reliable Witnesses?

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Greg Koukl answers the question, “Are the gospels reliable?”

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24 thoughts on “Are the Gospels Reliable Witnesses?

  1. John Blakey

    Very good argument in favor of the validity of Christianity.  If you are seeking the truth, look here.  If you are looking to disprove something, pass on by.  Your perspective is already tainted.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  2. Bob Seidensticker

    @MindTheHeart Good to hear that we reject that empty argument. From what you'd said, I couldn't extract anything more compelling.

    No, I haven't heard a compelling argument for God's existence. Let me know what is most compelling to you.

    I don't imagine much of a blow to our intellectual pride to imagine that our brains evolved for no deeper reason than just survival. That's what explains the facts best IMO.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  3. Jason B

    "we have great historical accounts…"

    Really? You declare that 25 or 30 years is *not* enough time for myths to develop yet you don't hesitate to say that the "great historical accounts" are enough to hold up the extraordinary claims regarding Jesus? Which of the following 2 is more plausible: That 1) a myth about Jesus emerged after 25 years of storytelling or 2) that Jesus rose from the dead? Any hint of intellectual honesty would at least acknowledge the first scenario as being possible.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  4. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich, It was your claim that there wasn't sufficient evidence so the onus should be on you to show that the evidence isn't sufficient. Saying its myths or legends isn't evidence, it's just a claim.

    Giving you any evidence would be like throwing a rock over the wall and asking you if the rock is good enough. You'll just keep saying it's not, seeing how you just said that NO evidence is sufficient.

    You have already made up your mind regardless of what is true or not.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  5. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich,
    I can't get you to tell me what evidence would be enough for you to believe. It's obvious that the bible is not sufficient as you don't believe it to be historically accurate.
    You continue to speak of legend and so on but when I ask you what about providing an example of Sufficient Evidence for an event outside of the bible that you believe actually happened, you avoid the question. Can you give me something from history that you do believe?

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  6. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich,

    I haven't made a claim one way or the other. I haven't expressed to you in the least what I know or not so for you to say I clearly have not looked into it is not speaking from what you have read from me.

    You made the claim that the historical data isn't enough to suffice for you to believe. So I wanted to ask you what would be enough evidence. I can't get you to tell me what that evidence would be. >>>continue on next post >>>

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  7. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich
    Wow… Stating that there is "NO historical evidence from ANYWHERE except legends within the church" isn't showing any examples that you have personally seen. It sounds more like a common statement that you have heard instead of actually looked into this for yourself.

    What about providing an example of Sufficient Evidence for an event outside of the bible that you believe actually happened?

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  8. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich
    2) My last response for #1 could also help in understanding your response for #2.

    3) You said, "I'm saying the insufficiency of the evidence leads me to believe the claims are mythical."
    What do you mean by lacking?

    Give me an example of a piece of evidence that is lacking in the bible so I understand how you mean lacking.

    4) Which dictionary? There can be different meanings depending on which one you go to.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  9. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich
    1) Can you give me an example of Sufficient Evidence for an event outside of the bible that you believe actually happened? Preferably, something before photography, video or radio would be closer to the situation in the bible. Basically something that relied on words not pictures of any kind to demonstrate that it really happened.
    I'm wanting to get an understanding of what you consider sufficient evidence as you have shown that you don't believe the words in the bible to be true.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  10. ScrollWheelASMR

    @ivanisavich,
    What evidence do you require for you to believe the claim?
    What do you consider reliable historical evidence?
    What makes you define the evidence given to you so far as mythical or legendary?
    What are your definitions of mythical or legendary?

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  11. Birdie Nam

    @BobTheAtheist2
    "Science can't explain X; therefore God exists"

    Where did you get that from? I did not say that. There is absolutely no logic to that statement.

    It sounds a bit funny if you twist what I say like that – and then continue saying that you have never heard a compelling argument [for God's existence].

    Anyway, concerning objective meaning, wouldn't it be a huge blow our intellectual pride if our minds has no other function than evolutionary survival?

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  12. Walt Walter

    David,
    A man named Thomas was once a doubter also. Jesus will if your willing(being God He knows your willingness and your heart) give you the truth just as He did for doubting Thomas. Be believing rather than unbelieving.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  13. David Brewer

    @ivanisavich Thanks for the exchange. Interesting how we both look at the same evidence and arrive at opposite conclusions. Could you direct me to your evidence that the church invented these stories to garner devotion and hope in extant followers? (By the way, I'm looking for reliable historical records on which you base your assertion.)

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  14. Bob Seidensticker

    @MindTheHeart "Science can't explain X; therefore God exists" is unconvincing.

    Does God exist? If so, I'm going to need a pretty compelling argument. I've never heard one.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  15. Bob Seidensticker

    @MindTheHeart Not at all. I agree that "proof" is the wrong thing to ask for. I'm simply asking for an argument that shows that the predominance of evidence points in your direction.

    You're saying that you sense (or prefer?) an objective meaning to the universe. OK, not a problem. But don't expect this to be a compelling argument for anyone else. I certainly don't see evidence for that.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  16. Birdie Nam

    @BobTheAtheist2 Science only works within the limits of space and time, and there is nothing in our universe which can provide an explanation for the existence of the universe. And you are right, the universe did not pop up from nothing, but it must originate from something outside the universe, and science is not capable of detecting it. Logic and philosophy can perhaps point us in the right direction, though.

    The only thing that fits the two points I made, is some sort of deity or god.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  17. Birdie Nam

    @BobTheAtheist2
    If you demand a 100% water-tight proof, I can't help you. (I would be amazed if there is anyone at all who can provide any water-tight to proof to anything at all when it comes to the big questions of life.)

    But here is what makes sense – at least to me: 1) That there is an objective meaning with this universe. 2) That the universe originates from a powerful and willful source which transcends our boundaries of time and space.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  18. Bob Seidensticker

    @MindTheHeart Who claims that everything popped up from nothing? Certainly not science.

    As for objective purpose, I don't see any. If you do, I'll listen to your evidence. You are the one with the incredible claim. If there's objective purpose, show us.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  19. Birdie Nam

    @BobTheAtheist2
    The most incredible claim is not that God created everything. The claim that everything we can detect popped up from nothing – or from something else that popped out from nothing – and that it all eventually will go back to nothing – for no rhyme or reason, without any objective purpose. Everything around us, our very lives, the so-called greatest show on earth, everything a big meaningless soup destined to vanish. That's the most incredible claim possible.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  20. David Brewer

    @ivanisavich Good question…but the answer requires too much to cover here. If you're interested, find clayjones' blog (sorry, I can't post the link) and read his post from Jan-2011 peter-and-paul-killed-for-proclaiming-jesus-rose/. You can see both sides of the argument in the comments section. Eventually, you need to weight the evidence for yourself.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  21. Bob Seidensticker

    Even if we accept Greg's early dating of Luke in the early 60s (a tenuous argument and not the consensus), that's plenty of time for who knows what to happen to the oral legend.

    Why imagine that the gospels were written by eyewitnesses?

    And we're supposed to build the most incredible claim possible (God created everything) on speculation? Very tenuous, I'm afraid.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  22. David Brewer

    @ivanisavich Were the eyewitnesses of the Loch Ness Monster willing to stand by their claims while they were tortured and killed? Maybe something to consider…

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  23. Glenn Harris

    Excellent and concise! Add to this evidence the omission of any mention of the destruction of the Temple (AD 70), which to Jewish writers and a Jewish audience would have been an historically pivotal event, and you have documents written much earlier than the critics would have us believe.

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply
  24. MetalcoreChristian77

    "Not God's Type" by Holly Ordway!

    March 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm Reply

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